East Pennine Orienteering Club

The Orienteering Club for Calderdale, Kirklees and Wakefield
 

December 19, 2006

Note:  Please remember to refresh/reload this page every time you log on.  That way you will get the latest update! This page is now ready to accept comments on the aborted Marsden event.   For example .....  What did you think of the event?  The area?  The organisation?  The courses?  How did you do on your course?  Which routes did you take?  Where did you go wrong, and how did you get back on track?
Thankyou for your comments. The BB is now closed! Go back to the event summary page.
Comment by Jackie Pageof EPOC.
Submitted at 15:28 on Friday 17-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   The Bulletin Board 
Firstly I also would like to apologise to Rachel Lambley for her experience at Marsden. However, I would like her to know more of the situation. As the weather started to deteriorate, I was at the Hey Green Hotel, having driven rather precariously up there with the orange. Bob was awaiting the return of the controller from the high start. He instructed me to return to registration, turn around any mini-buses en-route to the start(which I did) and stop any new registrations until a decision had been made. As far as we knew no-one had started. When the event was cancelled, registration remained open to return keys etc. Finally one key remained and three people had not returned, according to our records. Car registration numbers had been written down. There were a few cars left in the car park but they did not link with the number. Also the keys did not appear to be for any car there. I then drove back up to the Hey Green Hotel hoping to meet the 3 orienteers. There were ,however, several groups of people out walking. None appeared to be in orienteering gear. I waited some time near the Hey Green Hotel and looked around the area. When I returned to the car park, I was informed that you had returned.
Comment by Ian Watson (controller) of MDOC.
Submitted at 10:40 on Thursday 16-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Starters at the low start.
Can I apologise also to Rachel and the others who started. Like Bob, I was under the impression that both starts were being held until a decision was made. I was up at the high start when this happened and made my way down collecting a few controls on the way.

When I got to the low start, there was noone there (except for the string course people huddled in their tent) and I made the assumption that both officials and any early competitors had retreated. In fact I didn't know about the 4 who had started until I got home and read Mike's message on the web. This was clearly an error of communication. Had I known that people had started, I most definitely would not have either allowed collection of the controls on their courses, or left the finish until they had returned safely.

I should have made more effort to check if anyone had started. Apologies again.

Ian
Comment by Robert Page of EPOC.
Submitted at 10:09 on Thursday 16-Mar-2006.
I am replying to Rachel as the organiser of the event. The intention was that no competitors should have started before I made the decision whether to cancel or not. This instruction was passed to the Low Start team. Unfortunately, there was a breakdown in communication and a few people , including Rachel actually started. I apologise for this. I do not, however, regard this as being a major safety problem. as the conditions at that time were not severe. The event was cancelled because I could not risk a severe deterioration in the conditions over the next 4 hours.
Comment by Rachel Lambley.
Submitted at 10:02 on Thursday 16-Mar-2006.
to say you cannot think of anything which can be learnt shows a lack of understanding of safety, have you read my last comments?
the cancellation of the event was probably the right thing to do, but the wealfare of competitors still out wasn't even considered
Comment by AnthonyG of EPOC.
Submitted at 22:40 on Wednesday 15-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Cancellation and the website
Sorry John I. I have inadvertantly removed your reply when I was cleaning up the page. Thanks for your understanding.

On a general note, it is easy to say what might have been done with hindsight, but on the day, it was all go up until 9.15am, no problem. But as things began to deteriorate, decisions had to be taken on the run, so to speak. If there had been 6 inches of snow overnight, we could have cancelled at 8am, through the website, with ease.
The tricky thing is if there is anything that can be learnt from this for another time. I cannot think of anything!
Comment by Anthony G of EPOC.
Submitted at 18:24 on Wednesday 15-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Cancellation and the website
"the event web page advised us (in red letters!) to consult the site again after 8am sunday. This I did, but the message had not changed and had not changed by 9am"

Hello John
At 8.20am, as webmaster and minibus driver(!), I took the red message off the site. So I can only think your browser had just used a page from your cache, and not reloaded the new one?
Comment by Rachel Lambley of IND.
Submitted at 14:17 on Wednesday 15-Mar-2006>
SUBJECT:   CANCELATION
Although the weather conditions were deteriorating and canceling became necessary, there were no privisions for the unlucky souls who had already started the course. My husband and I both started 2 mins a part as did another. If you are so concerned with safety why weren't they considered for the starters?
As members of mountain rescue we were concerned that controls were removed before all starters were accounted for, this could of prolanged the time some compettitors were out in poor weather.
Also on our return to the pick up point there were no provision made to take us back to the car park hence we were forced to walk back, with pontential for further problems.
on arrival at the event control we felt that there were no concern for competitors still out and dismayed to find every thing packed up the only reason event staff were waiting was to collect hired dibbers.  
Comment by Paul Taylor of EPOC.
Submitted at 11:51 on Wednesday 15-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Snow
John really sorry you made the long trip for nothing, but as Bob says there was no snow in Marsden at 9.00 so I'm afraid we had no way of stopping you make your wasted journey.

Thanks a lot for coming and see you next time.
Comment by John Illingworth of Ebor.
Submitted at 10:42 on Wednesday 15-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Cancellation and the web site
On saturday evening the event web page advised us (in red letters!) to consult the site again after 8am sunday. This I did, but the message had not changed and had not changed by 9am, so I set off for Marsden, arriving at about 1015. I fully concur with the decision to cancel and would not have gone out onto the moors anyway in those conditions. However, I did drive 115 miles round trip and would have appreciated some advice on the web! Anyway, thanks for trying and I hope to come again next year.
Comment by Robert Page of EPOC.
Submitted at 21:08 on Monday 13-Mar-2006.
I was the organiser of this event and I made the final decision to cancel. This decision was only made after I had consulted with the Controller, Planner and several other senior members of our club.
The reasons I decided to cancel are as follows;-
1. There was no snow at 9.15 in Marsden. At 10.45, when I cancelled the event, the conditions had deteriorated significantly. There alse seemed to be no prospect of the snow stopping.
2. I estimated that only about 80 people would have started the event. Most pre-entrants had not arrived and some orienteers had arrived in the Car Park, observed the conditions and then returned home. There were only a handful of entries on the day. In the words of one club member 'The event cancelled itself '.
3. The road the buses would have had to take to the start was becoming very dangerous. Furthermore, it was being used by families, who were walking or playing in the snow. Some of these families had dogs, which were not under  control. There seemed to me to be a strong possibility of a major accident involving one of the buses.
3. The conditions high on the moor were far worse than in the Car Park, as the Controller and Planner have testified. The risk of breaking or spraining an ankle is much greater in snow, because it hides rocks, tussocks, holes etc.
4. Event organisers have to be far more safety conscious in modern times. Litigation is more common and I did not want to be taken to court or pilloried in the press in the case of an accident.

Finally, I apologise for the inconvenience caused to all the competitors who came but I would make the same decision again. Thank you to all EPOC members who helped on the day and for the support I have received from several competitors.  
Comment by John Corden of Ebor.
Submitted at 19:11 on Monday 13-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Cancellation Decision
I drove out to Marsden, and was in no doubt, by the time I got there, that the only decision you could take on an event in such an exposed area of the Pennines was to cancel. I was very sorry, would have loved to attempt it, but it would not have been safe. I'll want to compete again next year. Thanks to all who did such a lot of work, and who must have felt very frustrated.

Going back home to watch England play appalling rugby at Stade de France did not improve my temper!
Comment by Fellbaum Family of MDOC.
Submitted at 07:14 on Monday 13-Mar-2006.
As a parent with 3 children, and after having slid and skidded along the A62 (which for some reason hadn't been gritted until we reached the yorkshire border), it came as some relief to find the event cancelled when we arrived. We had started to feel very uneasy as we approached Marsden and the weather was getting worse, that we would be letting the children out on the moors by themselves. There were comments in the car like 'we must be mad' and 'we could have gone to Cannock Chase' (as advised by a fellow club member!).
I want to thank all those who organised, put out and checked controls and must feel very disappointed about the event being cancelled. We hope you will run the event again.
Comment by Jane Hodgson of EPOC.
Submitted at 20:34 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   String Course
We got up to eastergate and put the string course out. A few friends arrived
and set off round the course. Lewis got into his sleeping bag and went to
sleep. He's scary when he has been woken up before he has had enough sleep
so we decided to stay put. It was actualy quite pleasant by Eastergate as we
were sheltered and a few kids got the enjoyment of the course. We have lots
of pre printed maps, but I expect the sweets will be long gone before the
next event!
As it turned out waters road remined clear and passable all day, although
I'm sure the conditions were pretty nasty higher on the moor
Jane H
Comment by Graham The Planner of EPOC.
Submitted at 20:20 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Snow, Heartbreak and come next time please
Thank you to all those who helped collect the controls in today, it made an awful job more bearable.

Putting out 50 odd controls only to be told you have to collect them in again is truly heartbreaking.
To spend hours in OCAD, hours too-ing and fro-ing to the moor, replies to countless emails. Fretting about whether the maps will arrive, losing some e-punch boxes on the moor the day before, and fortunately finding them the next day, (phew!)Stressing that the start boxes didn't bleep, and later finding out your dibber has to be cleared to make them work!

Looking on every weather website trying to be optimistic, accuweather, the "best weather forecast in the country" tells you to expect only an hour of snow. The met-office forecasting a severe-weather warning. My wife leaving home to come to the event, nearly crashing into a wall on the country lanes near our house telephoning me saying there was already 4 inches of snow in Halifax, and that she was going back home!!

At 7.30 there was nothing but a grey sky. My truck was parked up on te A 640 at one of the highest points, the view was of snow heavy clouds waiting to empty, I hoped the wouldn't, they did.

I am truly sorry for those disappointed by not getting a run. When we went to get the controls we went in pairs for safety's sake. Although visiblity was OK the gullys were filling with snow, the wind was blowing it hard into your face,wind chill was considerable, and it took two of us dressed in what amounted to winter mountaineering gear the best part of two hours to collect just 8 controls!! The going was really tough under foot, was that patch of snow neck deep? Or was it on a frozen puddle,waist deep? you couldn't pick a way through the terrain easily because the terrain was obscured by snow. But...... running around in O kit??? mmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

I am truly gutted, I have spent most of this afternoon doubled up with cramps, knowing I'll do it all again later. The courses really do avoid the worst of the tussocks and in fact some of them don't see one at all!! They are truly technical courses. So if you didn't make for whatever reason,  please say you'll come next time, and if you think Marsden is not worth coming too, think again and come! It is worth it!
Comment by Paul Taylor.
Submitted at 19:58 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   I mean braved!
Comment by Paul Taylor of EPOC.
Submitted at 19:57 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Cancellation - the right decision
Though obviously it was hugely disappointing for many that the event was cancelled, not least all those who had worked so hard to arrange it, having been out on the moor collecting controls I am sure that the organiser took the right decision to cancel.

Although most people would have been OK up there and had a bit of a laugh in the snow, it was treacherous and the visibility was at times very poor. All too easy to stray off route and fall and pick up a bad injury. And then it wouldn't have been funny at all.....

Can I add my thanks to all who braced the weather. I think we can promise less wintry conditions at EPOC's next event in Honley Wood on 11 June.

See you then, Paul (EPOC Fixtures Secretary)
Comment by Anthony G of EPOC.
Submitted at 19:53 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   String Course
Ok, just let me have the photos? I suspect they do not exist.
Comment by Ian Watson of MDOC.
Submitted at 19:51 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   The Cancellation
Thought I'd add some comments because I think an explanation always helps when people have been inconvenienced.

I was out on the area from 7.45 onwards checking controls. At that time it was very cold but there was hardly any sign of snow. This was still the case up until about 9.15 when it started to snow properly. We knew that the forecast was for snow, but given that several forecasts had suggested that it would start early in the morning, and it hadn't, it would have been premature to call the event off in time to stop people travelling.

At about 1000, Bob (the Organiser) and I were starting to feel uneasy, so I went up to the high start to see what it was like. The conditions up there were pretty unpleasant. Many course had to climb 125m above that and the visibility was poor. I have no doubt that the tough would have made it round (and some would even have enjoyed it!) but had anything gone wrong (sprained ankle etc.) someone could have been in real trouble given the wind, the snow and the temperature. On top of that, by about 1030, Bob was doubtful if the buses would continue make it up the lane to the drop off point.

So, we decided to cancel. We were, by that time, certain that the conditions were only going to deteriorate for the next few hours. I regret that we had to make the decision, but I feel that it was the sensible thing to do. Apologies for the inconvenience, especially if you feel that you would still have wanted to run.

I don't know about you, but I had a pretty hairy drive back over the A62, so I was glad to get away when I did!

Ian Watson (controller)
Comment by Martyn,Jane,Fiona,Lewis of EPOC.
Submitted at 19:32 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   String course
Only 4 finishers? We had 5 finishers on the string course! Plus photos to prove it.
We were open till 12 (because Lewis fell asleep in the tent)but oddly enough had very few takers.
We'll now spend many nights gorging ourselves on unclaimed sweets.
Comment by Mike P of EPOC.
Submitted at 17:07 on Sunday 12-Mar-2006.
SUBJECT:   Cancellation News
Unfortunately because of the snow, EPOC had to cancel the Marsden badge event after the event had just started. Only 4 people managed to start early and get a run.

I don't think we can restage the event soon because of land permissions - we cannot run on the area from April onwards because of ground nesting birds. We wil try and hold the event as we have all the pre-printed maps but it is likely to be in 2007.

In the next few days EPOC will decide what we are going to do about all the entry fees we have received. It is likely we will offer a free run at any future EPOC event to all pre-entries however first we need to tot up how much money we have lost with the toilet and minibus hire.

We will email all pre-entries via the Fabian entry system to keep you informed.

Thanks for your entries and apologies if you made it to the event and didn't get to run.

Mike Pownall
EPOC Chairman

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